Damn kind of thought this would be an uplifting post.
I’m German and I don’t think that it’s particularly healthy to be proud of the country you’re from. It’s basically the belief that your own traditions, language and land are better than that of others. Like I get calling a place home, but so many places in Germany are as foreign to me as places in other countries. Maybe more familiar, but familiarity isn’t the same as something being good.
Anyone who was proud of america before was just drinking the coolaid. There are things america did that were worth being proud of individually, but soo many more not to. It’s the same idea as idolizing a person. The vast majority of the time they are really a bad person overall. Instead focus on the event or achievement and not the person.
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You’re getting a lot of the same comments in here, and I don’t feel like I need to add to the cacophony of voices decrying just how bad things have gotten (or, if you prefer, how bad they have always been and how they have only just now become more visible to us) so I thought I would chime in with one that still holds true today.
The United States has some of the best national parks in the world. If you are someone who enjoys nature and being in the great outdoors, whether that’s hiking, hunting, fishing, birdwatching, climbing, caving, exploring, etc. the experience you can get here really can’t be matched anywhere else in the world. We have the most diverse range of biomes anywhere on the planet - deserts, mountains, valleys, forests, badlands, swamps - you name it, we’ve got it and it’s probably contained in one of our many national parks scattered across the countryside - and the best part is that access is free for everybody.
Now, the big caveat, and one that kind of deflates this selling point quite a bit recently, is that a lot of the national park land and nature reserves are under threat right now by the Trump administration - there have been big moves by the executive to reclassify lots of federally protected land in order to expand oil drilling/fracking operations, as well as a push to force non-resident visitors to pay for entry, both of which are being fought tooth and nail by conservationists and environmental activists.
So, there’s something. We can debate on whether or not it’s a good thing to have national pride over things that we have little to no control over, but at the very least we can say we enjoy what we have now and take pride in the fact that our forebearers had the wisdom to use the law to protect the land and it’s precious resources and that we continue that effort into the modern era.
Being “proud of your country” is the root cause for all this shit.
Be proud of your family, your city, your friends, your self. even your company if they do good by you and others.
Never your country.
Just like being proud of your family means helping them do their best, being proud of your country is a duty to understand what it does well and poorly, and do whatever you can to help it do its best. I’m proud of the mythology we’ve built around the US being the “good guys”, so it’s my duty to call it out when it doesn’t live up to that ideal, and do whatever I can to help it move in the direction of those ideals. Even when it stumbles, theres a worthy goal to strive for
If we’re not the first to call out the gaps, then we have failed our country/family/city/corp, and our pride is meaningless blind obedience. NONE of these cases should be blind trust or blind love.
I help my kid remember to do his homework; I can help my country remember not to be fascist, racist, warmongering genocide supporters. I can still be proud of them when they fail,help them pick themselves up from the depths of failure, and help them try harder next time
Being proud of my country is the reason I protest when I’m disappointed in some of its choices, otherwise, why would I care?
Over the past decade, you can be proud of how you’ve made inclusive principles a standard feature of your cultural products.
Today, you’re facing backlash from the idiots who are panicking, but in Europe many of us are still lagging behind, and the positive effects of your influence on inclusion are still being felt.
Totally normal feeling and it shows you have awareness of what is going on.
There are tons of good people in the US and even more that would be good if our society wasn’t so twisted.
Maybe not the government, but look to the people.
MLK jr and the civil rights movement are just as much a part of America as Jim Crow and slavery. ICE is America but so is every protester fighting it. Lincoln is America. The KKK is America. Trump is America. Luigi is America.
The thing about people is we like to make things simple and put things in a box, and not have exceptions. But that’s almost never true, and the US is a land of contradictions. We’re very good people, and we’re very bad people.
So yeah, it’s going down the drain, but it’s always been going down the drain. It’s also going to get better, and it always has, little by little. Hopefully we can weather this storm and rebuild.
I like how you make your point, but the soft power of the US is over. As pointed out by others, the current administration is a sympthom, not an aberration.
US may have military primacy and the reserve currency, but neither can restore the loss of the appeal it had between post-ww2 and 2020. When tourists get deported after months of incarceration and we see videos of masked federal goons shooting people in the face, that is something else. When allying with the US gets you humiliation, threats, or even missle and drone attacks, that just does not seems like the smart move. So, respectfully, with friends like the US who needs enemies?
Wishing you best of luck getting your country back tough.
When I say things will get better, I’m hoping that’s for the people of America and the world, not the US government having soft power. I personally don’t want the US to be a super power anymore.
This is a great take and I’m glad to read it! Thank you!
This has always been my point when people say “back in the good ol days” or “Make America great again” or any other nonsense about how it used to be better… this is pretty much the best it has ever been! Even with the dipshit in office at the moment, it has pretty much always been greedy dipshits in control… we are raising the best generation to date in terms of nutrition being provided, the most inclusive in terms of race/gender/sexual preference… all we can do is hope we continue to make gradual improvement. People have always sucked. The elite have always raped and pillaged the poor… but there is less of that now than any time in history… slavery and depravity have been a part of history since we started recording history. I just cross my fingers and try to enlighten the young in my field of influence to be good humans and hope that some day we might not be as horrible as we have always been.
Idk we’re back sliding a lot right now. Overturning row v and well, the rest of what is going on. I just hope we can move forward sometime and soon
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is legitimately the best in the world and other countries wish they treated disabled people as well as America
From my personal experience, Finland supports people with disabilities much better, in part because the entire system is better. There’s public transportation everywhere here for one thing.
I can also go back to university here because it’s free.
That’s not possible for someone with disabilities in the USA.
Why not? Universities are also required to be ada compliant. It’s not retroactive, so older infrastructure is always an issue, but modern facilities should be fully accessible.
If you mean disabled should go for free, why? Some disabled are advantaged and some not. My state is one of those offering free public university based on economic need, a much better choice.
But yes, it’s by state, and most do not
Finns pay up to 57% income taxes and a 25% VAT. They also don’t waste that money on a bloated military.
“up to 57%” is like saying American billionaires “can pay over 20%”.
Unless you’re extremely wealthy here you won’t get anywhere near that 57%.
You don’t need to be Elon-wealthy to get those percentages. Over 500 000€/year salary gives you nice 50% tax bracket. You absolutely are not poor if your taxes are that high, but you don’t need to be CEO of Google either.
Oh, my bad, only a half million a year gets you into that tax bracket. My bad, you’re right, that is such a low amount.
It’s terrible that after that amount you get taxed on what you made over, rather than the whole thing.
(Btw since I’m guessing your Finnish, too by the username, the joke was that in the USA you can be multi millionaire+ wealthy and pay 0% tax)
the joke was that in the USA you can be multi millionaire+ wealthy and pay 0% tax
That is the actual joke here, agreed. If, and that’s a pretty damn big if, there was any sense on USA government they could just take our progressive steps and leave everything above 35% away from it and still have a crapload of budget to actually make their country great again.
But spending 100 million bucks per hour to demolish schools half way across the world is cool too I guess.
other countries wish they treated disabled people as well as America
Sorry to be a downer - the ADA itself is very good, but it’s not the only factor in determining quality of life for a disabled person. I’m disabled and my country’s equivalent of the ADA is about 90% as strong, but access to disability benefits (i.e., money) is much much stronger in my country than it is in the US. I used to be pretty active in disability forums, the whole benefits system in the US sounds fucking nightmarish for disabled people.
You really don’t realize how much had been done to support people who have difficulties walking, hearing, etc. until you travel in Europe or Asia with someone who needs assistance. Walkable cities are great if you can walk, but you don’t notice the lack of wheelchair ramps unless you need them yourself or are traveling with someone who needs them.
As an American, the ADA is definitely something to be proud of.
Those things are easier to implement when all your buildings aren’t over 150 years old though.
Still interesting to see how it is implemented in neighborhoods and buildings that are over 150 years old. I think the Smithsonian museums in our capital are actually the most interesting examples, because many are old buildings whose historical character were preserved, but where wheelchair ramps, railings, and elevators were tastefully and functionally installed many decades or more than a century after the building was originally constructed.
And perhaps the best thing about the ADA is the sidewalk requirements. It doesn’t much matter why a sidewalk developed a raised crack when the ADA requires that it be fixed.
I’m not even disabled, but I’ve pushed baby strollers in different cities (including outside the US) enough to realize how nice it is to be in a city where all the sidewalks and public buildings are ADA compliant.
True, but ignoring those old buildings, how many countries in Europe and Asia have laws like the ADA for new buildings? And sidewalks and parking lots?
Almost all of them? Why are you americans like this? Do you think that places outside of the usa don’t have accessible new buildings? Do you think Canada does not have similar rules or that places that have a robust welfare system like Denmark just flip the bird to disabled people?
This article makes it sound like Denmark does, on occasion, flip the bird to disabled people. Can you share any counter-evidence that shows Denmark has a law that’s equivalent to the ADA?
The core issue is political and structural. Responsibility for disability policy is spread across multiple ministries with no coordination, long-term vision, or accountability mechanisms. People with disabilities and their families navigate a patchwork system that often fails to meet even basic needs.
This affects every aspect of daily life. Healthcare access remains unequal. Public transport and housing are not fully accessible. Participation in cultural and democratic life, including voting, is limited for too many. Even Denmark’s emergency preparedness plans overlook people with disabilities, leaving those who rely on electricity, medicine, or personal assistance uncertain about how they would manage during a crisis.
https://www.edf-feph.org/blog/denmark-must-do-better-for-people-with-disabilities/
Your attitude is off putting, by the way. I’m glad most people I’ve met in Europe are more pleasant than you’re being.
Acknowledging an issue is not admitting a fault, its kinda what good nations do. And one article from an advocacy group does not make a broken system. Here I can do the same for the usa:
https://ballardbrief.byu.edu/issue-briefs/challenges-for-people-with-disabilities
https://www.section508.gov/blog/Barriers-to-Accessibility-Stories-from-Our-Community/
Not to say Denmark or anywhere is perfect far from it, but pulling an article out and claiming smug victory when not in a competition is very american.
How most would do it is just list the building directive:
Your attitude is american by the way, I am glad I don’t have to meet more of you in person.
You seem to be shifting the goal posts. None of the articles you linked to are about deficiencies in the ADA - in fact, your first link says this about it:
This act was so influential in improving challenges experienced by PWDs that its anniversary is celebrated annually through Disability Pride parades; these parades are typically held in large cities such as New York City and Chicago.
I never claimed America does more for disabled people than other countries. There are a lot of ways that we fall short. But when it comes to the ADA, it exceeds everything I’ve seen in foreign countries, and I’m proud of it.
I also understand that Denmark has laws that require a certain level of accessibility in public buildings. I never denied that, but I still maintain that their requirements are not equivalent to the ADA. So for, they seem to be inferior.
This is a joke, right? Like… Where’s the /s?
I know “America Bad” is popular on the Internet but it’s not always true. The ADA was among the first laws worldwide to treat disability rights as full civil rights across nearly all areas of public life, including employment, private businesses, public spaces, and transportation, and it went on to inspire other countries to pass similar sweeping laws. Also worth noting it was signed into law by a Republican weirdly enough. Not sure that would happen today.
If you want to say that the broader social safety net including healthcare in America sucks though, and by extension harms disabled people, I can’t really argue with that. But the ADA is excellent and groundbreaking.
Nationalism tells you your nation is what to be proud of, but that’s dangerous and manipulative.
Instead, focus on the people. You can be proud of the people who are protesting, people who are running secret grocery runs for people hiding from ICE, people promoting progressive or scientific thought in threatened educational spaces, and so on.
There are still plenty of us left in the US, some against our will, and you can still be proud of them for still trying when so many others have given up.
This is true wisdom.
Most reasons to be proud of america were lies from the beginning. Try to find other stuff to be proud of. I hear carpentry is pretty cool. Good luck!
I’m not American… but I am Scottish/British and I’ve never quite understood the whole being proud of your country thing.
Unless one is a hypocrite it’s always been clear to me that if you’re going to be proud of all the good shit your country has done you’ve also got to be ashamed of all the bad shit.
And with a few centuries of colonialism under the UK’s belt (and before anyone says different, no, Scotland very much partook and benefited from it) I seriously don’t have the emotional fortitude to feel that much shame.
Feeling pride in your culture? In your community? Fine. But in your nation state? A bunch of administrators with delusions of grandeur wrapped in a flag? I’d argue that’s unnatural because nation states in no way played a role in our evolutionary psychology.
Maybe I’d feel different if I was born in a wee inoffensive country somewhere… but I hope not. Nation states are pragmatically necessary but I don’t think we should be getting too invested in them.
I’m an American, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I can imagine being proud of one’s country’s institutions. When a nation actually pulls off democratic republicanism, it’s something to be proud of. When a nation’s institutions protect civil rights and promote egalitarianism, it’s something to be proud of because that takes a lot to set up. Ultimately, a government is something built by a community and shaped by a culture. The people at the top would like to fool you into believing that government is a clash of wills between politicians, but they’re just the tip of the iceberg.
Although our highest offices have been corrupt for a long time (always?), Project 2025 dismantled many of our proudest institutions.
Agreed. What op is feeling may be an awakening from nationalism. Maybe not pleasant, but liberating, I think.
Yea but I heard a story about a carpenter and the job almost killed him.
Actually it did kill him. But he recovered.
He got better.
Let me tell you the good news: we’ve always been fascist, racist, bullies. This admin is just not covering it up at all. Glad you’re awake now my guy.
yea that was really good news. I ment so a small part of me can be proud again to be American?
Despite having done things that seem dated in other countries, you guys did plenty of good
Just look at all the technological innovation coming from your country that saved a ton of lives (yes you have a shitty healthcare system, but these innovations will help humanity for the rest of its existence, they cannot be taken away)
Yeah like tomahawk rockets
Don’t forget the Big Gulp
And RoundUp!
Yeah, Bayer owns that one now though. No good things come when Germans start borrowing bad ideas from the Americans.
Can we keep the topic to countries that have committed and are committing genocide in the last 50 years?
Yes, yes we are. We have been for pretty much forever. We fucking suck.
We’re finally learning that it indeed sucks to suck
If you’re a birthright citizen, why would you be proud over something you did nothing to achieve? It’s also not your fault, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of either.
It shakes out a little differently if you’re naturalized, but only marginally. That naturalization test isn’t much of a barrier.
I would suggest you focus on outgrowing the need to be proud of your nationality. It’s not necessary to be able to wave a flag happily to live a good life, do good things with your time, and appreciate others who are doing the same.
The second you try to take this to the level of the entire country, and specifically the nation-state itself… now you’re into a whole mess. The US has a lengthy history of atrocities, toppling democracies, massacring innocents, dominating weaker groups… just don’t go there.
Pride should be reserved for accomplishments, not for merely being born within some lines on a map. That being said, some immigration stories could be classed as accomplishments, so perhaps there’s pride to be found there.
No reason ever to be.
You don’t think there are any good reasons to be proud of being an American? Why not?
Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in. Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance? I can see being happy or feeling privileged to be an American - that at least suggests what you’re appreciating is that it benefits you. Saying you’re proud implies that being from the USA is some sort of moral success and it’s just not.
I’m sorry but this is incorrect.
Pride is not necessarily personal achievement - sometimes it’s identification or belonging. Our belonging to a group might be random chance, but endorsing the qualities of that group, shaping and participating in that group afterward are all active.
And frankly, no one needs to prove their pride to you. You’re not any kind of arbiter over whether people “deserve” to be proud of something.
Best of luck to you.
I’m proud of being gay. Are you saying I shouldn’t be?
I don’t know if you want to call it something other than pride, but I’ve never learned another word for what I would feel if John Brown had been my grandfather. It’s not my achievement, nor would I feel entitled to it in any way, but it would make me feel warm and grounded. My actual grandfather was a wife beating alcoholic, and I feel shame about him, even though he died before I was born and I had nothing to do with this.
I think that’s pretty common, even if it’s not logical, which happens a lot with feelings. I know several people whose parent(s) died when they were teenagers and in a period of tension with each other. All agree that the others shouldn’t feel any guilt for being normal teenagers when their parents died, and that the other parents knew they were loved, but most of them still feel as though they themselves had wronged their parents because of their teenagedom.
“Usually it’s considered pretty stupid to be proud of things you didn’t have a hand in.” Is it stupid to be proud of a friend when they accomplish something you didn’t help with, just because they are a part of your life and you want to see them succeed? Could that not be extrapolated out to pride in one’s country when it accomplishes something, even if all you directly contributed was your tax money?
“Why be proud of where you were born, when it was just random chance?” Because the place I was born creates the circumstances in which I was raised, forming the environment that shapes my values, worldview, and culture. I don’t think I should feel like I deserve credit, but why not have pride in knowing that I have the opportunity to carry on the legacy and work that accomplished pride-worthy things in the past?
A trick is to acknowledge that there’s many alternatives. You can choose to be proud of your state, county, or simply just say “yeah my country is a cunt, so what?” And realize pride of your country doesn’t impact whether or not you’ve been a good, nice, or kind person.
Well, you freed the slaves that you had enslaved. I mean, their descendants anyway.
I guess the answer is yes. Some small part of you can be proud to be American again. All you have to do is not think about it too hard, and you could try yelling “Silver Bullet” and shotgunning a Coors Light every now and then. That could maybe act as a stand-in for pride, anyway. C’mon buddy, it’s
notthat bad…In all seriousness, individually Americans are pretty good people. Well, a few of the ones I know personally anyway. That’s like a couple of baker’s dozens! That’s something!
The US is the only western country where slavery is still legally practiced.
Why would you be proud to be American?
It was founded on cruelty, and never improved.
The civilised world has always sneered at the US, and for good reason
Pretty much this, my friends and family thought I was being negative. But now, a few either, don’t like admitting it or they act like I’m a wizard.
Any nation that still ends official messages with “god bless America” and whose primary power projection has been weapons for centuries, is still a shithole. You’re not saying “allahu ackbar” because your religious extremists use a slightly different book.
The protests in Oregon and Minnesota show that we are still America despite the MAGA separatists attempt to destroy us. And although this current chapter sucks hardcore, we now see our neighbors and “friends” for what they really are.
The separatists really thought they could just steamroll us. But, it didn’t go according to plan. We also scare the whole cabinet enough that they are living on military bases because they literally fear for their lives.
MAGA is eating itself alive which is the only outcome of a movement based entirely on hatred and destruction. So, we are showing our resolve. That’s the undercurrent that shows we still have some good left in us.
wait till november before doing a victory lap
This is pretty big. It’s better to know your enemy than have them lurking in the shadows. They are loud and proud right now and we won’t forget that shit in 3 years. Your orange god won’t be in power forever and then what are you going to do for the rest of your life?
Focus on midterms, my friend.
Don’t think about 3 years. Think about 6 months.
The pessimist in me says the same thing that happened for many Confederates and Nazis: Forgiven and allowed to return into the folds of society, to fuck over humanity again.
I would like to be wrong. It is my desire to see them overflowing baskets and filling cardboard caskets.
although the thing is America can’t recover unless the supreme court is delt with, and democrats won’t do that, so the decline will just continue until it breaks
This is my hope, we understand them better than they understand us. And if civil war broke out the anti vaxers will learn what has killed the most soldiers throughout all history.
I would probably say your movie and tv show industry, im not going to comment on the the actual conditions for writers, actors, people who work in the industry (out of my expertise), the output is pretty amazing. No other country has produces the sheer content and quality of media you do.
Hey, that’s a reasonable and kind response. I appreciate it!
This was unexpectedly wholesome. Thanks homie.
