After several months of experimenting with different distros, I just yesterday made the full-time switch to Linux Mint. I’m pretty happy with it so far, I’m just wondering why I hadn’t done it sooner.
I didn’t have the patience to try out a few, but luckily Fedora has met my needs without annoying me as much as windows did. Though I am feeling a bit of an itch to try out some of the others, but am currently just chilling in this local minimum of effort and not regretting going from windows to Fedora one bit.
I’m in an interesting place. I dual boot Windows 10 and Pop OS. Windows 11 requires Secure Boot enabled and Pop OS doesn’t support it. I’d dump Windows entirely but I still need it for school. Not sure if I should switch distros or just keep using Windows 10 until I graduate.
When I was in school, I wanted a Linux machine (since my school stuff was mostly linux and I wanted to be able to work locally instead of having to ssh in to school machines) but wasn’t comfortable doing it on my main PC, so I bought a cheap laptop and inatalled linux on that. Had the extra bonus of being smaller and lighter than my gaming laptop that was my main PC at the time, too.
Your options will probably be a bit more expensive (and apologies for suggesting a solution that involves throwing money at it if you aren’t in a position to get even a relatively cheap one) since it’s running windows and needs the hardware for that, including TPM if your school stuff requires win 11 (though if you can get away with win 10 or 7, you could probably get a cheaper machine). Though on the other hand, your tasks might not require a GPU, which can save a lot right there.
Then you can truly isolate your personal stuff from winsows, especially if you set your LAN up to never let the windows machine know that the linux machine even exists.
I also use this with consoles to play games I’d like to try but they have DRM or anticheat that I don’t want on my PC. Also kinda doing it with work, though the laptop belongs to them.
Windows 8 is what pushed me to Linux. Linux is better than ever. Proton is just amazing.
I’ve been a Windows user since 95. I tried a few times to move to Linux, but basic user unfriendly problems always brought me back to Windows. Now there’s no option to go back. Linux Mint has had some bumps, but I’m properly motivated to jump over those hurdles now. I’ve become a proud Linux user this last week. Finally free of Microsoft’s gravity.
Welcome brother or sister or nb thing inbetween! This is the way!
Sibling is the word you want lol
I’m really enjoying the learning curve with Linux because it’s a valuable skill to master. On the other hand, every time I’ve had to “go under the hood” with Windows, it’s been to keep it from doing something awful to me.
Good luck. I jumped ship 10 years ago, you get used to it to the point Windows starts feeling weird.
Don’t hesistate to reach out when you’re stuck
I remember someone on Discord server I used to be on kept telling people to “use Linux” which back then, I thought it was some scary OS for people who’s tech savvy and wrote him off to be annoying. It was few years when I have my own laptop as early birthday present that I find Windows 10 annoying and remembered Linux exist so I run up a virtual machine and watch so many videos on YouTube about it. Then, I made USB-Boot and installed Linux Mint.
Far from perfect but I feel so much more comfortable using Linux over Windows, feels so much more smoother
back then, I thought it was some scary OS for people who’s tech savvy
That “too hard, too scary” reputation is a big part of what has held back linux adoption.
But when people actually give it a try, most realize that reputation isn’t really true.
There was a time…I was there. (Insert flashback scenes) But that time has long passed.
Distros have become easy enough that one doesn’t need to interact with the CLI if you don’t want to. I’m running Fedora Kinonite right now. I don’t even need to worry about installing updates. I checked a box or two and it does it all without my attention. And then applies the updates on the next reboot. But, you can open a terminal anytime or anywhere and have at it as much as you like. Linux is whatever you want to make it. And that’s pretty cool.
I think installing Linux exposes you to higher severity issues, like “now it won’t boot”. Once you get over that initial setup, it’s not much different than windows or apple.
If more computers came with it pre installed, it would be even easier for folks.
I think about half the time I’ve installed Linux it was fine. The other half were problems with esoteric solutions.
Still glad I made the switch.
I think installing Linux exposes you to higher severity issues, like “now it won’t boot”. Once you get over that initial setup, it’s not much different than windows or apple.
I think that’s also the case any time you are the OS installer and administrator for your own system. I haven’t purchased an off the shelf PC for myself since the '90s, and in the years since then I’ve had many more basic “this shit won’t boot” issues with Windows, though granted I used Windows much more during that time.
And even if you ARE setting up your pen system from scratch, I would submit that the install process for Linux Mint is an order of magnitude simpler than Windows these days.
Maybe its M$ Propaganda.
As a Linux Noob, Linux was lot easier than I expect it to be. Think it was me having the “This isn’t Windows so I might as well as research about anything Linux related” mindset which it paid off for me. It got to point where Windows is now my secondary OS (Mainly to use it to use Tomb Editor to make custom Tomb Raider levels which is annoying to get it running with Wine which I don’t know how to troubleshoot at all.)
It’s ironic how it’s now my main OS and if you told me several years ago that I would be mostly using Linux, I would think you’re talking total nonsense.
Looks like someone made a tutorial specific to tomb engine and wine: here Doesn’t look super complicated compared to some other windows only applications I’ve been tasked with getting working, (I’m looking at you proprietary Harley Davidson software my father in law was struggling with).
It boils down to a) install wine, b) install winetricks c) install tomb engine, d) use winetricks to fix a dll.
You’re right though; Native wine isn’t particularly noob friendly.
Alternatively you could try bottles (basically wine with a better GUI) or just install your application using native wine, then add it to steam as a non-steam application and enable proton compatibility (this works surprisingly often with no extra config weirdness).
I’ve been on Mint for 2 years now. So far the only roadblock I’ve hit is my obsolete audio interface not talking to it, and that’s not Mint’s fault. Everything else was a seamless transition for me. I will admit that I’m not super enthusiastic about GIMP though. Welcome to the club.
It might be worth getting a cheap Soundblaster card for your computer. Mint seems to have good support for all of them.
It’s a laptop. Really I just need to buy a slightly newer interface. My old one was running in Windows 10 with a Windows 7 legacy driver. I haven’t been bit by the recording bug lately so it hasn’t mattered. I’ve been focusing on playing badly around campfires instead. Eventually I will get around to it. My list of hobbies is stupid long.
Well if you’re still interested in updating your laptop, Soundblaster actually makes a sound card on a USB stick for less than $20 (Amazon). :)
Right on. It’s mostly the 1/4" and XLR inputs that I need. I should have picked something up by now, I just haven’t. I’m sure Uli has something available that’ll talk to Linux.
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I miss Windows 95.
That ui was so damn clean. There was basically zero bloat and everything had a place.
A computer was a tool and only did what you wanted it to. Nothing more, nothing less.
I miss Windows 95.
That ui was so damn clean. There was basically zero bloat and everything had a place
You might be interested in serenity.
Aww, man alive. Most perfect desktop environment I’ve seen in years, and then it’s a full OS rather than just a DE. Had been looking in the ArchWiki for how to install it and everything.
I finally dumped Windows for KDE Neon on my desktop and my Surface about 5 months ago now. Never looked back.
Which surface do you use? And what features are missing still?
It’s the Laptop Studio 1, and strangely enough, it’s about flawless! The Surface kernel drivers are really good, and my model just so happens to have full support. The only gotcha is that howdy (Windows Hello style unlock using IR camera) doesn’t really work with KDE Plasma. The touchscreen will also pick up your palm as regular touch input, but a good palm glove solves that.
I hope this doesn’t mean the enshitifcaiton of Linux as we start to cater for people who don’t want to learn… We watched it with Microsoft products, though they also had a profitable reason to nerf their software.
Windows was developed by a huge corporation for profit, and that drives enshittification, because eventually they have all the users they think they can get, so instead they start trying to milk those users for more $$$.
Linux is developed by a bunch of nerds who are doing it as a hobby, or because they weren’t happy with the other options. This type of group does not leas to enshittification.
That’s the beauty of Linux- there are so many distros to choose from.
Something for everyone.
And if enough people don’t like the existing options, you are always free to fork what exists and make something that fits your needs better.
Being simple to use out of the box is NOT a bad thing on its own. We are simply used to seeing the proprietary profit-driven version, which is the path to enshittification. When something works great out of the box but you still own your machine and have access to any damn thing you want that’s hidden from view by default, that is just a good product.
I’ve been an engineer in electronics and software for over 20 years. I have a masters in software engineering. I currently work on C and C++ code every day for embedded systems, including one that’s embedded linux. The terminal is my comfort zone. Screens full of super-legible monospaced text please my eyes.
I run Linux Mint Cinnamon (btw) on every computer of mine, even my work machine, and I don’t care who knows it!
I recommend it to anybody of any skill level who will listen.
It doesn’t have to. KDE is a great example here. Out of the box, it’s extremely simple to use, as well as familiar in look and feel to Windows. But if you want to - it gives you a lot of customization options. So it doesn’t seem to lose out on anything due to being simplified by default.
And frankly, a lot of Unix software could use a similar approach. I know it’s not that simple, but it helps the users greatly - particularly new ones, but experienced ones too. Perhaps this wave of Windows refugees will in some way lead to progress in this area.
Lol, have you seen Gnome? It’s already too late.
Yeah what a nightmare. Amazing volunteers building incredible software for everyone for free.
Gnome devs threatening me with a good time on my surface laptop. Please stop.
Just Canonical.
Linux doesn’t really have the profit motives that lead to enshittification.
I guess a bigger entity could try to start charging for… something… Support, maybe, but that seems unlikely to take off.
I guess a bigger entity could try to start charging for… something… Support, maybe, but that seems unlikely to take off.
Are you aware that Red Hat alone makes billions of dollars per year off Linux?
My biggest concern is the whole “removing powerful features = user friendliness!” mentality that these big tech companies have been pushing for years.
Why make users smarter when you can make software worse and charge more for it?
The dummies don’t get the bigger picture, they just see “nobody needs powerful features that make things too confusing for me!” My hope is that they don’t flood Linux with this drivel - profit margin or not, it’s a toxic cultre that has already been created in commercial software.
You can have both and both is actually better.
You have a system that is simple to use on the surface, auto configures itself. Has guis to do the standard tasks you need to do. Then you have everything exposed in a neat way for power users. There is no reason having a nice gui has to preclude having an infinitely hackable and well laid out system. Also the more normies who use Linux, the more corporations are forced to support it with drivers and stuff which is a win for everyone. If half of normies were using Linux on their personal machines rn, then every piece of software would support it out of the box. Since it’s open source and often copyleft, you always have the option to pick your own distro, environment, and whatever else, regardless of how much corporations want to manipulate users or control software.
The main thing is that Linux should always be hacker and developer oriented first, and supporting normies should be secondary, but also not unimportant.
There will always be newbie-oriented distros as well as ones for experienced/professional users. It’s alright if the former will go towards simplification, as long as we have plenty more keeping the tinkering spirit.
Besides, each and every distro has a powerful tool that can help you do everything: the terminal. No one limits you there, and unlike in Windows, terminal is heavily and commonly used.
And back in the day we had CMD that was pretty powerful. Things are great now but if Linux sees a huge flock of new users, and they become the status quo then we could be in trouble.
Worst case scenario: widows goes tits-up and everybody flocks to Linux. Solid ground for a potential commerical swing to happen.
Terminal is the only thing that is pretty much universal in all distributions. It is too essential to lose relevance. Besides, even when giving advice to new users, you can either list settings for each specific DE and possibly distribution, or you can just give a terminal command.
All I’m saying is don’t get comfortable and complacent in what we have now. A sudden flood of funding can do wonders to enshitify something good.
We already have systemd.
Am I the only one who likes systemd…
Systemd is great ! You really begin to love it after you have tinkered with MacOS’ launchd implementation and
.plistfiles🤦I’m with you I don’t really get the hate for it, nor have I seen a suggested alternative.
Have not seen suggested alternatives?
Dinit? OpenRC? Runit? S6? SysVinit? InitWare?
Not many seem to know the last one.
https://github.com/InitWare/InitWare
There are more.
Systemd is fine.
Bro I’m not going to wait 15 seconds to read that article fucking cloudflare, takes years to complete on a smartphone.
You’re clearly not a human.
I certainly feel dehumanised
I’m using it on my laptop as a teacher. My gaming PC with steam is linux. I see improvements in performance every half year.
Had a student want to use it. I told him he needs to dual boot. Keep his options open. Then time will tell whether he will make the great leap.
Dual boot should be default suggestion for everyone trying Linux out. No pressure, just try it.
VMs are a solution too, depending on what you use each OS for. I’ve worked some jobs where my main work machine was Linux, but would sometimes need to use Windows-only software, and would just run it on a VM.
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First boot may create problems (especially with legacy nVidia) so dual boot makes the blame not fall on Linux.
Swapped to pop!Os on my gaming PC on the 14 and not looking back.
Same, really liking it. Bit of a learning curve, but in a fun way.
I’m old enough to have seen this “flocking” several times. Some people stay and are pleasantly surprised. Most people go back a few weeks/months later, and leave a “Linux suxx” post behind them. I don’t expect this time will be any different, and that’s totally fine.
Linux is a lot better than the last few times.
It might just be ‘good enough’ at this point.
I agree. This time, it’s actually different. Big name streamers and YouTubers are showing their support. Not just people in the tech industry, but random channels like EmKay and PewDiePie.
Linux is better than ever. Steam is a breeze. Wine support has never been better.
Meanwhile, Windows has more nasty surprises, underhanded backstabs, and security nightmares than ever before.
First time reading that PewDiePie is a “random channel”…
Dankpods has gone in on Linux too. He did a video about building a Bazzite PC a couple of weeks back.
Can you enumerate these underhanded backstabs? What a colorful claim.
Ads. Steering me to store all my data in Microsoft’s cloud where they do (or inevitably will) scan it for profiling, AI training, government surveillance, etc. (which also annoyingly locks file handles when documents are open). Shoving AI into every product, even when it’s completely useless. Sunsetting useful products. Changing license terms for paid products, forcing subscriptions. Requiring online accounts only and eliminating workarounds. Removing features and replacing them with incomplete UI offering less control. Massive security holes. Annoying patch/upgrade system that interrupts me while I’m working. Flaky, bug ridden tools (Teams, etc) And updates that break hardware.
Hey some of these actually are underhanded backstabs. You get a good star for understanding the assignment! 🌟
- Ads all over the place (and a start menu full of crapware)
- Telemetry you can’t completely turn off anymore (the only thing I’d respect is a license check)
- Constantly putting edge back
- Forced MS account and removing ways to bypass it
- Cloud upsells
- Forced updates “do this within the next 2 days or else…”
- “Copilot copilot copilot”
-we heard you like search bars so we added a search bar next to the menu containing a search bar.
-open wide because here comes the unwanted update train.
-you want to do thing with file?
No, bad user. Play candycrush instead.
-that’s an impressive machine you have there. Would be too bad if someone were to slow it down with tons of bloat.
-Telemetry? At good ol MS? Never.
-oh but all the W10 menus you love are still there, it just takes a rainforest expedition to get there.
-Just buy a one drive subscription and walk away.
Yeah that search bar, so useless because the start menu itself is a search bar if you simply start typing.
So, to really be sure i get it: adding two search bars is an underhanded backstab?
Now I see why I didn’t get it, the definition being used is literally insane.
Please make sure all your drivers are up to date and your screen is set to the correct resolution because it seems to be that you’re missing the bigger picture.
“Underhanded backstab” being the correct expression or not aside=> W11 sucks ass imo, get mad if you want to. (Something tells me this isn’t about proper word choice for you though, but feel free to correct me on that if that is a thing you care about)
I uh…don’t have any of those experiences personally but that isn’t really the point. I asked for underhanded backstabs.
Have you used Windows past the 8.1 days?
Yes, I find Linux terribly unusable on my laptop, way too many driver issues, hard to get into a secure state, and I miss apps like signal (no official build) mpc-hc (the replacements are all trash) and a functional version of thunderbird (lol at the tray icon third party implementation that just doesn’t work). Etc, etc. I don’t have a ton of unique needs but I do want theto work
^and this is of course with KDE, gnome is all that but with just a trash user interface. How many gestures do I need to use to make my computer treat me like an adult ffs.
It’s still of course on my server (an old laptop which ironically can’t be used as a laptop because at some point after some random update the login service broke and won’t accept input from the keyboard lol) and other headless devices I don’t have to actually use, thank god.
Signal has a Linux client though? I literally use it myself
The signal org produces a debian-compatible package and an apt server. I suppose there are hoops to jump through to make that work reliably on other distros but by that point my interest in using Linux was dwindling. (I actually moved for the performance benefits which didn’t materialize I think due to linux’ piss poor memory handling – I have a pretty low end laptop with only 16 gb of ram. the above we’re all just issues along the way).
I think a lot of people expect Linux to work like Windows, and that’s why they go back to Windows, even if some stuff is easier on Linux.
Many of us probably remember times when we tried to download random applications through a web browser, because that’s what Windows expects you to do. People will try that, and be confused, why stuff breaks or not work at all.
I mean I love linux but the biggest hurdle is that certain software/games just aren’t compatible. I use my pc for sim racing in vr a lot. With no ability to use iracing or my vr in linux I’m stuck. While I hate Windows and would prefer to use linux, I’m not going to abandon my hobby and all the equipment I have for it just to use an os I prefer. Throughout many different domains of use for a computer their are many different variations of stories like mine. Until the software and games people use can be supported in the linux ecosystem ‘good enough’ never happens. Like for basic computer use linux is already better than good enough its fantastic, it just works has intuitive user interfaces the bones of the OS are there. The problem is that many companies and software providers just aren’t filling the gap that is the needs beyond basic web browsing, media playback and, playing older/indie games without anticheat. Without the substance people expect it doesnt matter how good the bones of the system are they are gonna be trapped in windows and linux will be stuck as the outcast programmers and enthusiasts use while knowing they have to still use windows for the niche use cases they have. And time and time again, eventually running 2 systems gets tiring and linix use/adoption slows back down again.
they are gonna be trapped in windows
But you understand that when VR headset makers and game developers read your comment, this is all they will take away from it ^.
“oh sweet, people won’t leave windows, so we only have to support one operating system and can save the money we would have to spend to support linux”, right?
I think it’s easily good enough for general use. It’s only certain types of gamers (anti-cheat support is still pretty terrible), and people who are heavily attached to a specific Windows program that they spend a lot of time using, that will have trouble switching across full time. For everyone else, Linux is superior because it runs so much faster than the now incredibly bloated Windows. Depending on the distro, it’s also arguably simpler than Windows too.
Most anticheat actually works fine on Linux like 99%+ of games with anticheat. It’s just a handful of titles which I don’t even like anyways, except maybe GTA online that don’t work. It’s also not a limitation of Linux but an intentional choice made by those developers to disable it on Linux. Their stated reason is because it’s easier to edit memory and stuff on Linux, so they rather just ban Linux all together instead of banning cheaters or region locking games where cheating is common, like in China. I think the real reason rockstar does it is because they have big investments in Microsoft or something. Either way I have no desire to support windows, there are plenty of games that I play, nearly all of them in fact, that work just fine on Linux. There is like maybe 2 that won’t.
I was one of those nomadic users, every year, since 1998 with Mandrake Linux.
I have always been in love with the idea of an open source OS, but if I couldn’t game and work on it, it wasn’t ready. Every year, until Valve made it easy to game on Linux.
I made the switch when Proton was released and never looked back.
My point is, every time users go back to Windows, they have their own personal reasons, but those will some day not be the truth anymore.
Gaming for me is the only thing I don’t use Windows for. But for gaming I still do. Because I mainly game in VR and that’s still so far behind on LInux :(
But I have 20 odd computers in the house so it’s easy to have one with windows around (two in fact, another old one with Win 10 LTSC for programming some old radios).
I love KDE for all the options it gives 🫶 I don’t like Gnome, Systemd and all the other redhat influences but they are easy to avoid these days.
Because I mainly game in VR and that’s still so far behind on LInux :(
This is a major sticking point for me too. I’ve got a dusty Win10 partition I haven’t booted in ages, and I was keeping it around mainly for VR, but then Microsoft had to go and just extinguish that too.
Monado is making impressive progress but it’s a huge pain because they have to reverse engineer stuff with zero help from the manufacturers, instead of simply interfacing with the hardware.
I refuse to let Meta have any of my money though. I hope a good affordable VR kit comes out that isn’t another hyper-proprietary blackbox.
But this time Linux actually plays video games right out of the box. No trickery. Just install steam and the rest of the experience is smooth as butter
And sometimes with better performance than windows because of less of a system overhead.
this was so surprising to me; my favorite game (tropico) didn’t have blinking tiles/polygons on my linux rig than it did on windows.
it was super strange because i put linux on my old windows laptop and it also got the blinking; but the game got better when i bought a linux-only laptop with zero proprietary stuff on it (not even the bios). go figure.
Difference in GPU?
yes and not the way you’re probably thinking: the last windows rig had a dedicated nvidia card (i forget which) while the linux rig had a cheapo integrated intel gpu and the intel gpu it performed MUCH better like i described.
it could also have been the maturity of the nvidia driver back then, but then again it was the same game on both machines so it wasn’t that far apart in age-wise.
Nvidia’s always had quirky issues especially 10 series and before on Linux
i was going to argue that there’s no way that it was ten years ago before i realized that the tropico i liked was released 11 years ago. lol
afterall: 1999 was only 15 years ago too. lol
Desktops only frankly became remotely useable to normal people with recent revisions of things like kde…
Between that and software actually finally started becoming remotely reliable in like 2022-2023 for your avg windows user.
Comparing the past to now is not reliable fair.
More progress towards making things normal user friendly have happened in the last 3-5 years then the last 20.
Let me guess, you might have tried Linux on n the past but only really started using Linux full time around 2021/2022, because every time I see someone saying “Linux only became user friendly around year X” is always around a 1 year mark after they started using it daily, because it’s a lot more a matter of being used to than actual usability. I have been using KDE since 2004, and while things have changed it wasn’t all that much, I don’t remember any big usability refactor or anything of the sort happening, I’m fairly confident that if I were to put you to use a KDE 3.5 UI you would feel right at home.
Yeah of all the potential Linux issues you could point out, DE usability really isn’t on the map
And also other operating systems are becoming terrible in recent years. So double plus good for Linux.
I’ve looked at Linux for years but it was always so intimidating to me. I finally installed it when my pc was being aged out of windows 10 and honestly it’s really fun to play around with even though I’m not super tech savvy. It’s easy enough to find a solution online if I run into any problems and everything is free!
This is usually the case, people make it a monster in their heads but it’s not bad as long as you’re willing to accept it’s a different OS to be used differently.
many people will go back, but of these, i’m sure many will also come back eventually
i’ve tried a bunch of distros in my last 2 years with windows. many didn’t satisfy my needs at the time, so i stayed on windows.
but now, it’s been over a year since I definitely switched to linux, and over 6 months since i nuked (accidentally, but shhh) my windows partition. and i don’t plan on going back anytime soon.
Yeah it’s been a long road for me to be fully Linux on my personal systems. I think I started messing with Linux circa 1997 and didn’t switch over fully until I think Windows 7 went EoL.
Just out of curiosity, which distro did you end up using?
right now im on Fedora KDE! it works well enough for me, it’s modern, it looks good, and most importantly (for me) it supports fractional scaling well (my laptop needs fractional scaling and that’s been the thorn in my foot for a while)
Great choice, often underestimated but actually rock solid
Linux Mint works great, but I’ve heard good things about Bazzite, too.
I love and hate bazzite. It’s still what I use daily, but man is it weird. Just small little bugs, an it is an immutable os so that threw me off, couldn’t do my wild an whacky project but atleast most everything worked right out of the box!
Same history
my buddy wanted to switch from w10 to mint and i tried to recommend kubuntu because of wayland, i told him mint will be laggy because he has many screens with different refresh rates and mint can’t handle that. he wouldn’t listen, installed mint, and a few weeks later went back to w10 raging how linux suxx it’s so laggy. could’ve just installed kubuntu but no, it had to be w10.
That’s an Nvidia issue, not linux.
Seconding this because I have had that issue. Switched over to an AMD card and life was good.
oh, always thought it was an x11 issue and affected AMD too. well anyway he’s broke and he got a high-end nvidia gpu for next to nothing so I’m not going to even try to convince him to get another gpu
Linux usage has been trending up over time. It’s real.
As a percentage of desktop users or percentage of any users (including people who use their phones mainly)?
Many people will definitely go back, but the percentage staying might be better this time around. Linux has gotten a lot more usable and stable for those tech inclinced enough to be able to install it thanks in part to proton, immutable distros, flatpacks, Wayland, and improved defaults. Mint and bazzite are pretty darn good for daily use. I’ve never stayed on Linux as long as I have with this run, and I really don’t feel much of a push to leave it. Most everything I want to do just works.
I agree, I notice more new blood around Linux compared to the previous “OMG, Micro$oft suxx, let’s all ditch Windoze!1!!” craze (I guess it was Win8.1 -> Win10, maybe?)
I’ve been trying to switch to Linux for at least 5 years. I wouldn’t say it’s any better now than it was then. I desperately want to love Linux, but it fights me at every step of the way. As a media pc… I have had zero success using it as a media pc. My one requirement is an on screen keyboard, but it doesn’t come with one, and all the offerings I’ve found are shit. They won’t work in some windows, or at all.
As a laptop… This has been the most successful. I’ve not had any real issues with Linux on various laptops, other than finding replacements for certain windows software, but that’s not really a Linux problem.
As my main pc… Gaming has been fine. Hdr has only really recently become a thing, and it seems fine. However, I’m constantly coming across stupid things are ARE a Linux problem. Downloading and installing software has too many methods. I understand downloading a file to install something. I understand downloading a script to install something. I even understand why you’d need to make that script executable before it’ll work. I don’t understand what to do with a bunch of random files that claim to be an installer but don’t seem to have an install script or a .deb package. I don’t understand why once I map/mount a network drive, it fucking disappears after a reboot and needs to have the mount process be automated at every reboot.
Linux is just hostile to users. And while it is, it’ll never massively succeed.
LTSC is a much better option.
If you can find a package that works with your package manager, you can install most software with the manager or use a flatpack, but even install scripts are very easy once you learn to cd into the folder. You should really ask chatGPT to help you when you run into issues. It really helps. You can just copy and paste console output when you get errors and it will guide you through it.
Bazzite also comes with a built in onscreen keyboard and many things have it under the accessibility options. I run on screen keyboards on all my Linux devices for the occasional need, I also bought a pocket sized mini keyboard that is Bluetooth.
Each person knows what it feels more comfortable with.
Linux is not inherently hostile, it just has a very different way of doing things that what you’re accustomed, so you perceive it as hostile. It is sometimes easier for someone who never touched a computer to learn Linux that someone who grew with Windows to unlearn the habits.
There’s nothing wrong with feeling comfortable in Windows, it’s the system you grew up with and know how to work with and maintain.
Windows, starting with 8, is inherently hostile to its users in ways that are very difficult or impossible to mitigate. It’s a black box of complicated machinery, a lot of which is trying to spy on you, steal your data, show you ads, upsell you on their stupid cloud services so that they can steal more of your data, etc. At this point, disabling all of this is really difficult and unreliable.
Linux on the other hand is like a box of spare parts that you can build whatever you want from. You really do need to read the manual, or else whatever you build will look and work like shit. However, if you do build something good, it’s yours now in a way that a proprietary OS never will be.
I understand downloading a file to install something.
That’s a terrible start.
Software installation sources by priority:- Package Manager
- Flatpak
(Graphical utilities like Discover unite these two) - AppImages downloaded from the browser
- Rpm/Deb packages downloaded from the browser, but really should be avoided
- ONLY IF YOU REALLY KNOW YOUR SHIT YOU CAN RUN SCRIPTS TO INSTALL STUFF
You can add other stuff like toolbox after n.2 once you’ve got more experience.
Your reply seems to insinuate that all the software I could ever need will be included in the package manager. That’s just stupid.
I agree with your order of preference, but when I start having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find what I need, it becomes hostile.
Sometimes you have to add repos. Many more user friendly distros come with small repos for various reasons.
Your reply seems to insinuate that all the software I could ever need will be included in the package manager.
Why would I make it a list if that was true? It would be just “1. Package Manager”
That’s just stupid.
If you smell shit everywhere you go…
Thanks for the opinion Bill.
For anyone wondering, linux offers over a dozen virtual keyboards and btw they aren’t called on screen keyboards. All of them work great. And lots of distros come with one included.
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Hold on. I’m as much a Linux fanboy as anyone else, but can you name one OSK that supports swiping to type?
Instead of an onscreen keyboard, you could try KDE connect.
Same. I loathe Linux. I’ve been trying to use it since I was 19, periodically installing one distro or another, and I hate it. I absolutely hate it. I’m not saying it is bad or anything but I do not have the patience to fight with an OS over every tiny thing or having to look up a guide for every installation or having to double check what will work and won’t because you’re going to need a container.
Linux, I’m sure, is great but it’s also one of the least user friendly operating systems out there, regardless of Distro. I keep trying to use Linux Mint and it keeps driving me up the fucking wall. Either Linux supports nothing without a battle or nothing supports Linux without a battle and I’m not remotely interested in fighting with my PC to do something simple. The second that that shit gets sorted is the second I’ll be fine.
Next time try bazzite. It mostly just works out of the box and the only tools you really need extra are lutris and protonup-qt which are both guis and can be downloaded from the package store. You don’t really ever have to touch the terminal in bazzite. It comes out of the box with wine and stream and proton already configured and it has the best performing driver installed by default for your device.
Well that is a weird experience. I can imagine having issues with one device or one or more applications, especially when trying to use windows software in Linux, but having to fight everything seems… Extreme.
I really really hope, Zorin brings up a screen and says that it has detected a “legacy application” when it proposes better alternatives…
Good because fuck Microsoft and Windows.
Microsoft, a sponsor of the new White House ball room.
It bears repeating, so: fuck Microsoft and Windows.
I guess it is the year of the Linux desktop for at least some people.
I’ve used Linux desktop in various forms for just over two decades, this has to be the fourth time it felt like Linux was having its chance to seize marketshare. Each time it ends up not being the mass adoption that people hope for but it feels like the community grows each time so I think it is neat nonetheless.
Anecdotally, I was tinkering with it earlier this year and finally stopped being lazy and flipped my main PC over. After I talked about it enough in my friend chat, three more friends followed suit and a fourth is going to soon. It’s not just the end of supporting Windows 10, it’s all of the repeated bugs, glitches, and AI garbage Microsoft has been pushing everywhere so aggressively. People who would likely only rate themselves as “mildly” tech savvy are sick of it and willing to make a move, I feel.
I’m ok with that. You hit a point where a community sustains, and is good. Lemmy is a great example of that. Often, when it grows past that, it can become… unsavory.
Often, when it grows past that, it can become… unsavory.
Exactly! Like the Internet, Linux is for anybody! . . .but not necessarily everybody.
Is there a dumbie sheet or cheat sheet . I just feel lost on linex.
Depends on what you feel lost about, if it is the basics in general then I would suggest you start of and read about the basics here https://labex.io/linuxjourney they write about the very basics in a very simple way. I think they did a good job, they start of with what Linux is, what distros are to commands from the most basics as how to navigate in the terminal to more advanced combinations. They also have vms where you can try out the commands if you haven’t switched yet.
If it is a cheat sheet as in commands then i would say it is better to make your own of the commands you care about but you can start of by using other ppls list like this one https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/linux-unix/linux-commands-cheat-sheet/ but it can be overwhelming for you so use the linuxjouney first. Also it is very important to learn how to look up how to use the arguments in the terminal with man or -h to make it faster and less painful to use.
If you are lost about programs then there are a lot of good GitHub pages that links to useful programs and cli tools, you just need to search for awesome Linux <what you want> list
Examples:
https://github.com/luong-komorebi/Awesome-Linux-Software You can use their web pages version too https://luong-komorebi.github.io/Awesome-Linux-Software/ https://githublists.com/lists/awesome-lists/awesome-bash
Here is one for distros https://github.com/kolioaris/awesome-linux-distros
Here is an example for customizing https://github.com/fosslife/awesome-ricing
When looking for programs is it very important that you know what distro you are on, what desktop environment (like kde, gnome, xfce) and what window composition you use (usually Wayland or x11, x11 is older and is more compatible).
So in short start of at https://labex.io/linuxjourney
Then look up distros here https://github.com/kolioaris/awesome-linux-distros
For new ppl do I think Ubuntu based is best because almost everything has a Ubuntu version, when you feel ready can you test out other distros. I haven’t tried bazzite, I started of many years ago on debian (a few random ones like arch and mint) and then pop os for many years and now cachyos, I liked my journey but that doesn’t mean it is correct for others.
I would suggest to have all of your data you care about on a separate disk or have automatic backup of it so you can break your os without care. And if you start customizing would I suggest setting up a GitHub repo and commit your changes everytime you like what you see so it is easy to go back if you regret something.
I hoped this helped on your journey, I didn’t want to overwhelm you so I hope I kept it simple enough :D
Butting in to say: your post may be the help I needed to actively consider switching.
Dude, I’ve been using Linux for over 20 years and nowadays I barely need anything beyond what I do on Windows and Mac. Just remember that everything is a file lol
Thanks for that, I’ve saved your post for when I switch. My laptop runs windows 11 but I’m not enjoying the experience. Used linux a bit in the 90s but I’ve forgotten everything and will have to start from scratch. Yep, when I get some time I’m going to make the jump.
If it is a cheat sheet as in commands
With most modern distros, I would say that most typical users shouldn’t have to go to the command line any more than they had to in windows (which is to say very seldom).
Yet there is that lingering reputation that you have to be some sort of command line guru to even think about using Linux- and that simply isn’t true. Hasn’t been true for decades.
This is true, but I think it is good to know the basics because sometimes is it easier just like it can be easier in Mac and windows.
I think it is good to know about the tools you have so you can do the best decisions for your use case.
But like you said the terminal is not a must (for most) so if you feel uncomfortable about it then the terminal is not a reason to not switch to Linux.
Im setting up a raspberry pi for media then switching my pc to linux. So it should be interesting. Thank you for all the great starting points.
Glad I could be of help! Knowing the basics about the terminal (cli) will help you a lot with your raspberrypi when you wish to fix/change/do things on the fly. I often use ssh to connect to mine to do stuff from my phone haha
I do free infinite troubleshooting on matrix, I have over 15 years of experience
Is that a help service?
I guess? I don’t know what you mean I just help people on matrix in dm’s for free, my matrix is on my profile
That answered the question. I appreciate that. I’ll save this. Thanks
For all their faults, LLMs are pretty damn good at basic trouble shooting of Linux. Ideally prepare context for them with installation details. Use CLI client, recommend opencode CLI, plan agent is good to inspect the commands it will plan to run and let’s you inspect and think through what it is doing. Can also ask for clarifications along the way.
It’s not perfect but very good.
Honestly, if you go that route I’d probably recommend using an LLM only for information and asking questions, but run commands yourself and actually read it’s responses. If you don’t understanding something, ask for elaboration. Otherwise, you risk too much automation, letting it set up configurations you don’t have actual understanding of and making a spaghettified mess.
Just ask people here, people just love anyone who switches over to Linux and want to learn about it. Because we actually love this operating system. Its so good.
When my kid started using Linux, once he knew how to start programs and install things, we went through where the files are on the file system and how to get there in a terminal. I think thats a good starting point so you understand the foundation of the system.
And then go though a basic Linux command line tutorial to learn about the common tools for listing files, filtering results, renaming and deleting files etc.
You can do that stuff in a graphical file manager too but you dont really get that understanding of how things work until you do it in the command line.
The terminal commands is where I feel lost. I feel like Im trying to hack the main frame.lol just a bunch of typing and no clue what it means.
Any specific things you are getting stuck on?
Analysis paralysis mostly.
If it’s on the distros, don’t fret it too much. They all do everything, it’s just an initial configuration.
I have been recommending Mint specifically, as it targets the average user with a ‘it just works’ mentality.
Can confirm. For anybody else reading: Mint was my first Linux distro away from Windows, and it’s been great daily driver.
Third’d
Mint or any other ubuntu-derivative distro is 10000% the move. I’ve been running ubuntu as my os for a while now, and I’ve spent nearly the last decade on linux (makes me feel old saying that lol).
The other distros have a lot of strength, but at the end of the day i want to spend my time messing with things i want to mess with. I don’t want random weird issues that I have to constantly debug, and everyone can agree that stability is debian’s (and therefore ubuntu’s) undisputed strength
If you are new I suggest bazzite, and get lutris to install windows apps outside of steam. It takes care of most of the stuff and to install software, on bazzite you use “sudo rpm-ostree install <package name>” and then reboot because bazzite uses an ostree system, or just get it in a flatpak if available. Between bazzite and knowing how to install packages outside of the flatpak repository, that should cover most of your bases for a few years and you can learn other stuff when you have the inclination. ChatGPT is really knowledgeable about Linux since it’s open source. It’s often much faster than digging through forums just be specific when you speak to it.
Also if you get your setup in a decent shape, you can shrink the partition and image it with dd with a single command, and then compress it to have a full system backup, which is basically your own image. Then you just write it back with a program like etcher later if you screw up your system and then just reexpand the partition to the full drive. If you get bazzite though you won’t have much need to use the terminal or install anything outside flathub which will keep you from breaking the system. Also update the system occasionally, to get security fixes once a week or two is probably fine if you don’t have open ports to run a server and aren’t running random software.
Is this satire?
Seriously, if I was new to Linux, coming from Windows, asking for a cheat sheet or Linux for dummies manual, everything you wrote would sound like absolute gibberish to me.
If this was someone’s response to me when asking for advice I’d immediately reinstall windows where at least (from the perspective of a typical end user) they speak words that make sense.
Also suggesting a gaming distribution to someone that gave no indication plays video games at all…
It’s the easiest way to get into Linux if you need good GPU support and I assume most people play video games. Bazzite is what finally got me into Linux because it mostly just worked out of the box which is something most Linux distros I tried before that never did. I would always end up breaking them in a day or two trying to get the GPU driver installed or something. Bazzite is really good for beginning users. Not the greatest for mid tier when you are trying to gain a deeper understanding because it replies heavily on containers and file system overlays.
Also you have to remember that for people who aren’t ultra Linux nerds. It’s an incredible amount of work to get Linux to work. It’s often days of painful configuration and research per machine. This, and a lack of gaming support is the main reason I think most people avoid Linux, which is why I suggest bazzite, as the shit just works distro.
You shouldn’t ever use rpm-ostree to install stuff with, as it can cause issues with future system updates.
First port of call should be flatpaks in the bazaar.
Second, look for flatpaks or appimages online.
Third, use distrobox to install something via a different distro and export it as a shortcut to bazzite. I use arch in a distrobox, btw.
It seems to be okay for me, there is maybe a handful of things I install, and I don’t want fedora so much as that’s what bazzite is built on. If it breaks I’ll just move on as I’m getting a bit more familiar with Linux. I will probably install Debian or mint or something with a much more simple file system when this one breaks.
Even though bazzite is fedora-based you’re not really meant to interact with the fedora side of it all. At least that’s the impression I’ve gotten from it.
I dont think it matters really for installing little programs. You probably shouldn’t change your kernel or something. When you update the system it’s just using rpm-ostree and doing a standard update through the repos, then it updates flatpaks. On the steamdeck since it’s arch it will break pretty easily if you update the wrong thing, but bazzite is built in fedora.
The rpm-ostree systems is also good for anything that breaks because it’s basically a snapshot system. Everytime you install something or update it creates a snapshot of your old working install which you can easily roll back to if anything breaks. You could use containers for stuff but that’s not really necessary. It does probably make the system more stable in ways but then you have to deal with the headaches of using containers and having everything isolated from each other. For web services though containers are worth it as it greatly increases the security of the system.
I installed some stuff with epm-ostree early on in my experience in bazzite and at some point i could no longer update. I had to do a rebase to sort it. Thankfully, that’s easy and pretty quick though.
Interesting, this is one of the reasons I’m trying to sort of get everything to Debian eventually. I think complexity in software is often bad. Especially for someone like me who is always tweaking and changing stuff and trying things.
Year
Of
The
Snake
SNAKE?!
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!
Badger Badger Badger…
Mushroom mushroom
Kept you waiting, huh?
You’re… pretty good.
hssss!
Linux
Desktop
D
sudo systemctl start snakelinuxd
NetBSD
Penguins
Month
Windows 11
speakwrite
user exodus to Linux
I would give it a month tops
